Comments on: I Want To Scream!

by: MOTHER OF FOUR =D

Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:32:04 +0000

I KNOW IM KINDA LATE ON THE RESPONCE CUZ I JUST DESCOVERED THIS SITE.I LOVE THE ADVICE!! I DON’T FEEL ELLEN WAS HARSH.SHE GAVE GREAT ADVICE WITHOUT SUGAR COATING.AS A MATTER OF FACT I TOOK NOTES.WHEN I ASK SOME ONE FOR THEIR ADVICE I WANT THEIR HONEST ADVICE NOT A PAT ON THE BACK FOLLOWED BY A “GOOD JOB YOU’VE DONE EVERYTHING RIGHT.”COME ON NO ONE IS A PERFECT MOTHER.WE ALL I’M SURE TRY AND GET CLOSE YET STILL COME UP A LITTLE SHORT.THAT’S WHY WE VISIT SITES LIKE THESE FOR A-D-V-I-S-E !!THANX FOR YOUR TIME ELLEN KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

by: moonlit

Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:51:53 +0000

I think the advice was great and I plan on implimenting it asap.

by: casey

Mon, 23 Jul 2007 09:20:25 +0000

yes, i must remember to handle things in a calm manner and that i am my kids role model to how they may handle the rest of their life’s conflicts.

hats off to this website!

by: Ninah

Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:03:02 +0000

Ellen,
First I want to thank you for your work and for the animal school video. We share it often at Sparks of Genius (www.sparksofgenius.com).

I really liked your response and I was amazed to see all the different thughts about this. There was so much truth in what everyone said. I like this village of opinions. I am very grateful that you provide this forum where we can discuss our thoughts and feelings. Thank you.
Ninah

by: Laura Ambrose

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:21:43 +0000

I, too, intervene too much with my girls. They are 9 and 7. When I figure out that I am in the middle of something that I should not be in, I say “Wait, who owns this problem? Me or you?” They usually say “we do” and I say “Okay. What did you each say? Say it again and pretend I was never here.” It is a somewhat graceful way of getting myself out of trouble. Especially if I have to apologize for sticking my nose into someone else’s business. I think sometimes kids feel rules apply to them and not to us. My having to backtrack and apologize shows them I have to learn from my mistakes and I have to apologize sometimes.

I am thankful that everyone here has shared. Some responses were a bit harsh, some were very supportive, but all gave me something to think about.

by: Emma

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 19:01:04 +0000

As a mother to a 10,6 and 4 year old with one on the way. We have our conflicts everyday. I think the advice could have been given better. If that advice had been given to me I would have felt like I had failed. I think the issue is that the 16 year old felt left out and wanted to make his sister feel the same way he did, which was sad and left out. Maybe a way to have avoided the whole situation would have been to ask the 16 year old if there is anything special he would like to do. If the negative situation still arrises then try the sandwich method. As far as the 13 year old having a temper tantrum, that is un-acceptable. Things aren’t always going to go the way she wants them to in life, but a temper tantrum will not fix it and that is something she needs to understand. I don’t think eiether child is ready to deal with these situations on there own. For the last 13 years the mom has always intervened so to throw them out there on there own to fix it to me is a recipe for disaster. The mom needs to not take over, but to help them to work through these things together in a calm and loving way.
Keep in mind the whole house is probably geared towads the family re-union and your son probably wants to feel like he is a part of the whole thing and that he has something inportant to offer. Good luck, it is always easy to tell someone else what to do, but you are looking for help and to me that is a very important part of being a good mother.

by: Nikki

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:03:54 +0000

Dear “Scream” mom, Good for you! You noticed that you are out of control. That’s the first step to change. Asking for help from Ellen is very humbling. You are definitely honoring God by reaching out for advice. Yes, I am going to say that I was somewhat surprised by Ellen’s initial advice, but sensed that she was trying her best to give advice, not criticism since you asked. The sandwich method does sound like a new technique that may work. I have 3 children ages 9, 5, and 3. A son being the oldest with two girls. He is always looking for ways to get “negative attention”. He also loves to antagonize and hear them “squeal”. It is trial and error with all children. The best thing that I think you did was to step back, evaluate and regroup and search for help. I can not say that my husband may not have had a similar reaction. He always reminds me that I am the adult, they are the kids. I am in control not them. By the time they are teenagers, if I had this same situation, I am sure he would have a “due” reaction. The one thing mistake that is easy to make is to give in to your child who is wanting to help like the placecards. I am not sure her exact personality. My daughter has a strong willed spirit which will get her far one day. It is a constant developmental process of true patience on my part. It sounds like your daughter needs to learn now how to deal with self control. She needs to be reminded that her brother is always going to know how to press her buttons. Our children have learned how to press ours. This is what happens when we don’t recognize in the heat of the moment. They press our buttons. With time, pressure and wanting the best outcome for everyone involved, how else could you react. I agree, now that it is over, if you have the time, take a breather, get a cup of tea or coffee. This just gives you a moment for yourself which sounds like what you need most. How often we forget to take time for mom? I do best if I find out what gives me joy and when I am at my wits end, I work hard on getting back to basics. First, prioritize, God, husband, children, yourself, others, community. Then, pray. My favorite is I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Pardon the expression, but God never gives us more than we can handle. He gave you two wonderful children to raise. Often, myself I am busy and forget that I only get one chance to do this right. If and at least once a day, I make mistakes, I try to remember to ask for forgiveness from the person who I offended. This is humbling, but shows that I respect that person enough to admit that I messed up. Also, that I am acknowledging that they don’t come with instructions. This usually brings a sound smile to everyone. When we laugh at our mistakes, acknowledge that consequences have to be paid, then we are teaching our kids and ourselves acoountability which will give them better tools out in the real world. This is our job as mothers to equip them to go out into the world and be able to survive. You are doing what we all try to do, ask for advice, acknowlege that you are normal, try to find solutions and prevent the situation from being a re-run. Keep up the great work mom! We are all right there with you. Sometimes it works, sometimes someone else has a great book, sometimes we have time to read, sometimes we don’t. I agree that we don’t need to be so hard on ourselves. But that is so much easier said than done. I hope this encourages all of us to keep trying to raise small souls upward!
Love in Christ, Nikki C.

by: Patty

Sun, 08 Jul 2007 21:37:45 +0000

I agree, I was also disappointed in the advice given in that it was very condescending. No need to kick someone who is down, being honest and asking for advice. No wonder so many people are afraid to ask for advice for fear of being exposed of their imperfection! Compasssion goes a long way, and it would have been better if Ellen had “sandwiched” her own critique.

by: Christie

Sun, 08 Jul 2007 18:40:13 +0000

Wow. This was some really cool dialogue. It is great to get ideas from each other that we can store away for future reference.

For me personally, I would likely have lost it with my kids, too, BECAUSE of the fact that there was SO much going on for this family. Hosting a family reunion is a big chunk of stress. All I can say is that we parents have to be extra guarded in our own emotional state when life is crazy, because unless we are super-human, we will have a shorter rope when busy or stressed. The kids may have been feeling that stress, too, which may have helped push them over the edge. It’s helpful for me to just recognize that ahead of time, so I can catch myself when I start to get angry.

I agree with most of you: staying calm is the best way to handle conflicts (I realize that is easier said than done). Contrary to what one person mentioned about teaching people lessons by showing them your anger, I have this to say: “rules without relationship breeds rebellion”. Anger communicates rules, but not relationship. No lesson is learned them. The person receiving the anger feels justified to keep being disrespectful and disobedient toward you, because they feel you don’t deserve otherwise from them. Test me in that. Try staying calm and disciplining or staying calm and having a discussion with your husband (respectfully). Bet you’ll have better results than if you “teach them a lesson” by yelling at them all.

This mom is doing fine. At least she’s teachable! She’s asking for advice. Some would want to pretend to have it all together. She just needed to recognize how close to the edge she was.

Then after the explosion, a family conference where mom acknowledges that she responded no better than the kids and apologized might have helped. Acknowledgment that they all were wanting to help, all feeling some stress, might help at least validate emotions (but not behavior). Then asking for suggestions from the KIDS about how they might have handled it from their standpoint (get their input on how to deal with it differently next time) is a good exercise. Of course, they might blow up again blaming each other, but expect it and stay calm yourself. Point out at the next family conference (before a blowup) that blaming doesn’t help. How can we handle our frustrations differently for real? Don’t get discouraged. Keep trying.

If your husband sees your efforts to communicate while staying calm, too, he might put more faith in you to not immediately act like you’re the problem (if he was. He might have just been reacting, too, since he probably didn’t want noise the minute he walked in the door). But be humble and allow him to give his input on how he would have handled it differently. You two most likely will not have the same perspective or methods, just like the rest of us don’t.

That’s what I’d say, but as you can see, there’s no one perfect answer. Just be encouraged that we’re all in the same boat (and we’ve not arrived).

by: dena

Sun, 08 Jul 2007 05:12:26 +0000

i think the sandwich method is great and so simple! i feel so enlightened to have read this email. i am definitely going to try it. i have 6 year old twins (a boy and a girl) and a 3 year old boy and at times all three of them are bickering. my first response is to ignore everyone but i often end up yelling and punishing the whole lot! your method is a great way to set an example of good healthy communication. thank you thank you!!!!

by: Debi

Sat, 07 Jul 2007 14:28:34 +0000

Ellen…I thought your advice was great!

I sometimes find myself in the “I feel like I want to scream mode”. Your advice has helped me out in my weak areas.

I have worked with children this fall for 24 years. Have been blessed with 4 of my own. Our last born is very demanding.

So far your emails have helped me out on many situations. I would like to thank you:)

Debi

by: Nancy

Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:54:30 +0000

I must agree that a “perfect world” is not a reality. The reality is that we are all emotional beings and we must get a grip on self control. This is a forever learning process. We can not say we have attained perfection because any giving moment the circumstances change and we are dealing with a whole new set of emotions. How we react to the “buttons being pushed” will always make an impact on the outcome. Is there a set answer, I believe not! We all must learn self control, an reflect on want may have been a better way. Hind-site will give us the foundation for future actions. It will always be easier to determine a better way when you have reflected on a wrong decision. Don’t beat yourself up over wrong choices. Forgive yourself, apologize, ask forgivness and make a determination that you will do better if the occasion arises again. We all learn from the same processes. Are we going to get it all right? No! That is WHY it is so important to be honest and open with our apologies. We all make mistakes. Thats Life! Live and Learn.

by: lisaM

Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:47:25 +0000

“When you are able to handle disrespect with respect, and insults with calmness, your children will be influenced to communicate in an effective and positive manner”.

In order to do as ellen has stated, you first have to know where the whole process of arguments stem from. I just finish the most powerful book called Leadership and self deception, “getting out of the box” by the Arbinger Institute, I have implemented it my daily life and it has changed my relationships with my husband, children yrs2&4, friends coworkers and the girl behind the counter. This is a must read regarding human behavior! Ellen I think this book would also be great for you, your post created a lot of resistance from your readers, this book will teach you why, and how to be more effective.

by: Courtney

Fri, 06 Jul 2007 05:48:39 +0000

I have just started reading the responses from this website and appreciate them, being a single mom to a six year old incredible boy. I think the advise was a little off considering the male childs comments should not have been ignored. As far as “losing it” this is where the parent went wrong….which every parent has challenges with. Walk away, breath, punch the pillow, don’t lose it setting the poor example of behavior for our children (so much easier said than done- I have taken parenting classes). Realistic consiquences versus punishment and encouragement vs. rewards is what seems to work for me as a parent and educator.

by: Heather

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:29:46 +0000

2 points:
1. Ellen, Pointing the “you should have raised them differently when they were younger” finger is not the way to go…and, YOU are giving advice on communicating??? Yikes! How about teaching respect…for people, their ideas, and of course property. By the way, what’s with all the typos?
2. Kathie (mom to the 11 year old daughter who kicked the 7 year old son). So, you talked with your daughter, and you say “this is a typical scenario”. Does your daughter ever get punished for kicking? Your son is not her punching bag. Get tough, Mom. Punish your daughter’s behavior, each and every time…11 year olds DON’T KICK…she’ll get the message.

by: Carol

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:15:06 +0000

Mom id not think that the place cards were necessary, but she indulged her daughter anyway. Perhaps since this is for a family affair, they should have sat down and discussed the ideas as a family, then the son would have felt like he was participating and the daughter could have got the criticism from him out of the way before you spent the money. Maybe you would have decided to go forward with the decorations of not, but it would have solved the conflict before it started. Sometimes as parents we get so involved in getting it done, we forget the older children like to participate, or not, but should be given the opportunity to voice their opinion when it involves them. Good Luck!

by: Ellen C. Braun

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:45:17 +0000

Wow, what a vast array of viewpoints you have contributed here!

I truly appreciate all of these comments, and I’ve learned something from each of you. To those of you who said that I was being too harsh, you have a valid point, and thus, I’d like to add the following in my letter to “Ready-to-Scream”:

It’s ok to want to scream, and even to vent privately and physically punch out your pillow!

Firstly, take a look at how YOU are doing- are you oftentimes stressed? When was the last time you did something nice for yourself, alone or with a friend? Do you have at least 30 minutes a day where you can relax… exercising, reading, or listening to music? Have you been eating nutritiously? Unhealthy eating can wreak havoc on our moods- try switching from white to whole wheat breads and pasta and replacing your junk snacks with colorful fruits and vegetables- an all-natural mood-enhancer! Are you sleeping enough? All of us are far more likely to blow up when we are short on sleep. Recognize that going to bed on time is an essential gift to you and your family- as you’ll obviously be a more effective mother, wife, and person without that fatigue!

Understand that perfect communication, like all perfection, is a lofty- yet unachievable- goal! We reach for the stars so that we do not remain stuck in the mud!

As I wrote here- http://www.raisingsmallsouls.com/everything-versus-something/ - several weeks ago, small steps are the only steps that have lasting value.

If you can take the advice about utilizing the “sandwich method” just 2% of the time for the upcoming year, give yourself a huge pat on the back! Yes, that does mean that the other 98% of the time you reacted in a less-than-desirable manner… however- you have made real progress! And, when you improve another 2% of the time for next year, and an additional 2% the following year… like a savings account accruing compound interest- you have made substantial progress!

And here is my very first article for this site- read it again if you haven’t read it in a while- http://www.raisingsmallsouls.com/hello-world/.

Here’s a summary of that thought:

Parenting advice must be viewed as a flight plan. The guidelines should be viewed as an overall strategy, not a specific map, to reach our destination. By keeping the appropriate parenting path in mind, we can keep ourselves from straying too far off course, and hopefully reach our goals.

I’m glad to have visitors that disagree with me; it means that we are all doing more thinking about our parenting methods, which can only serve to benefit all of our small souls:)

by: Judi

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:37:17 +0000

Natalie says that she is surprised at how emotional some of this chat gets……What surprises me is that so many people are up at 1:00am, 2:00am, 3:00am etc. to worry about this.
I agree that the Mother mis-handled this. I know because I too am a mis-handler at times. Sometimes all we can do is draw a deep breath, a cup of tea, and whisper a little prayer in silence. That should give us enough time to get ourself under control and not say what we are really thinking to Dad. Then perhaps a “Family Conference” would be a good idea. Everyone gets a chance to explain - without reprimand - and that is a great learning tool in it’s self.

by: Mary

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:23:27 +0000

This mother should apologize to her kids for “loosing it” and modeling an angry response.
This will be better modeling than anything else. She will be teaching her kids to keep short accounts with others. Hopefully too she will ask forgiveness of God who she has really offended, (as we all do) We are weak creatures and our moral failures(great and small) are an offense to God. Keeping short accounts by asking forgiveness is the key to peace, no matter which parenting manual you’re reading. Short accounts with others, short accounts with our watching Father.

by: natalie

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:15:45 +0000

Without reading every single reply, I would like to reply to a couple of points made and add my input.

First, I do not feel Ellen was too harsh in any way! It might be hard to take it, but didn’t I want to scream want feedback? Well, long and the short–our society has put too much of an emphasis on not hurting other people’s feeings! I’m tired of it!

As parent’s, it is our responsiblity to teach our children how to handle their own situations, including their feelings and how to respond. The children were being children and even if they might have some sort of grasp on communicating with each oterh–which is seems there is some of if mom validated her daughter’s idea and went out of her way to do, we are not perfect beings! EVERYONE fails to do hat they know is right at some point, often… and EVERYONE realizes what they should have done aferwards or in hindsight– perhaps you think it over, talk it out, talk with others (like we do here)whatever, but when we fail, we learn!!!!!

Children are children! It does not matter that they are teens rather than tots. Siblings rival throughout their entire lives. Ellen is right–mom needs to have the kids take care of it and can model or guide them through it. It’s not too late–this just happened! In fact, perhaps since the emotion is gone and the party is done, it is the best time to deal with this!

Mom, you need to take this teachable moment now to teach your daughter to ignore those who put you down and keep going. But also, to have her realize that she is too old to have a tantrum to this effect! She should aplogize to the family, since it changesd the tone of the event!

You also need to talk to your son–or better yet, give dad his moment! Dad can ask how sone could have contributed an idea, or got involved. And son should apologize to the family, and to his sister particularly.

Mom, you need to apologize. Our kids need to see us notice our mistake and teach them how to parent. The apology says I was wrong too, and no better than you by throwing a fit myself. No if’s, no but’s. Just I’m sorry and next time I will…..

Mom and dad need to talk too. They are together in this–thank goodness. Mom is trying to put together an event for the family while dad is working–I assume. THey are both doing their part but the family fallout was public. So, what’s the plan next time the kiddos do this–and they will!

The rest of us here: I’m suprised how emotional some of this chat gets! THough my response my not be what’s acceptable, we should be trying to offer objective responses! We need to teach each other how to handle our emotions and feelings so we can do this for our children. We need to have ideas of what to do when the **** hits the fan. Mostly, we need to be supportive of each other–it’s why we come to this site!

by: rahel

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 15:47:54 +0000

I would love to get Mary’s 5 ways to resolve a conflict and her temper thermometer

I also don’t think it was a bad response. If we are calm (and yes there is stress in life, but we have to know how to deal like adults) the children will eventually learn to deal with problems calmly. We need to learn to take care of ourselves if we want to be calm for our children. I like the sandwich idea. Maybe if everyone learned how to communicate properly we would have less road rage and conflict in this world.

by: Nebraska Mom

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 15:15:51 +0000

Being closer to a teenager in age that being a parent to one (my daughter is only 14 months)I wanted to add a bit from the teens view. My mother, an exceptional preschool teacher, was an embodiment of phenomenal communication. In fact, I grew to despise the calm way she address every dispute that my three siblings and I started. With one set of twins, all four of us were born in three years so we were all teenagers for what seemed like forever.
Looking back, I was hurt by criticisms by my siblings. I loved them and even a teasing statement of “that’s stupid” hurt a lot. I would irrationally want to hurt them back. I could easily hurt my sister with words, and unfortunately I did, but my older brothers were a different story. They didn’t seem to care a bout verbal retaliation and they were much stronger than me so physical pain wasn’t an option. So I expressed my anger by throwing fits similar to the daughter in Ready-to-scream’s story. I’m not saying this is how every teenager reacts, but I wanted to say that even teenagers who grow up with perfect models of communication don’t always react responsibly.
The only thing I feel that I can add is that I wish my siblings would have realized how much their approval or lack of it meant to me. My mother would sit us down after blow outs to discuss why we shouldn’t hurt each other, but I can’t ever remember telling my siblings how much it meant to me because it would have been a powerful weapon for them to use against me at that age.
I don’t know if this helps at all, but I just wanted to add my few cents to the kitty. Good luck to all the parents of teens. I haven’t met one yet who made life easy for their parents!

by: Leann

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 15:09:29 +0000

I have to agree with some of the other reviewers. There isn’t any “perfect world” scenario here. We all have stressors and bad days. I felt the answer was condescending as well. Ouch!!

by: Diana

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 14:05:56 +0000

Let’s take it 1 step further, please. What about if your 13 year old has issues that do not let her communicate effectively. What do you need to do different, since it is possible for them to “fairly argue” and resolve the issue

by: David

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:53:04 +0000

What the hell kind of response was that ? (looking at Ellen). Perhaps in your world parents would be able to respond in the heat of the moment as if they were able to sit back and have a spot of tea, but thats not reality.
Ellen my advice is to stop being so damn perfect as you always seem to be. You put down a person who is looking for advice while pumping yourself up as this guru for a perfect response. Hope you feel better about yourself

by: Robin

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:27:11 +0000

My only addition is that the mom,like many of us, was trying to do the “right” thing by always encouraging her daughter’s ideas. This was a bit forced on her part. It would have been equally OK, to say,”Placecards are too formal for this occasion, but decorations will be nice. I am glad that you want to help with the party”

I think we make our kids out to be too fragile, and the result may be overly self centered or dependant on positive reinforcement. We don’t have to tell our kids everything they do is amazing. The placecards was not a great idea, so why not be honest? Maybe the daughter reacted to her brother the way she did because she can’t handle any criticism. Her brother was wrong,but she needs to toughen up.

Mom is “walking on eggshells” in the family. If I were a counselor, I’d want to look at that.

by: LadyPoet

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 08:52:07 +0000

It looks like everyone has weighed in on this. Wow, our answers are as varied as our personalities.

In our family…I would have had my son making such a comment to my daughter, I probably would have asked him why he felt that way, and my daughter would have said something to the effect of “men don’t understand the need for name cards…or four forks at the formal dining table…etc…

I’ve been in situations where I have let it get the best of me, I admit to being imperfect and screaming at the top of my lungs…just a loud ear peircing scream. Get rid of the tension…and move on with life.

We are all human, and we need to give ourselves a bit of slack now and again.

You are doing fine. It’s totally normal to have days like this. Only when every day is like this should you start to worry.

I do recommend reading a few great books:

The 5 love languages
The Discipline book by Dr. Sears
Children The Challenge

These are very helpful in perfecting our parenting skills.

LadyPoet

http://www.theeducationalrevolution.com
http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/LadyPoet33/340404/

by: sara

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 08:21:06 +0000

ellen,
you may not have meant it to sound that way but it seems to me that your reply to this lady does sound quite condesending. It realy is not a perfect world &I’ll bet you don’t have any teens yourself…

any parent can lose their cool when there are a lot of emotions flying around in the room.after trying realy hard to be the nice guy and medeator your emotions some times get the better of you & you can lose the ability to think quickly & clearly about how to defuse every one’s emotional time bomb ,your own included.

ready-to-scream,
I feel for you.I have lived with 4 younger teen aged brothers and a sister. I got used as the second mom or shrink.realy not fun to say the least.
I don’t think your daughter realy hates her family. she just needs to calm down & an apology from her brother would help. she should have cleaned up the mess though.
her brother probably felt left out.(’bet he wont admit it though…) so he used good (or bad) old negative attention as away of saying “hey guys look at me! I’m here too!” If you can find a way to include him in you’re preporations you may have a less tense home…
also maybe try to talk to your husband- ask him to please ask what’s going on before he judges next time. who knows, it might bring everyone back to their senses.
-this usualy works in my house with my kids.

hope it all works out!

by: Erika

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:33:43 +0000

Is Ellen on holiday? This response just doesn’t sound like the Ellen I know. This response was clearly incompassionate, judgmental, and ineffective — it offered no tools and that is what many of us parents are looking for. Where are you, Ellen???

by: Joy

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 04:58:00 +0000

A childs “thinking/reasoning skills” do not fully mature until the age of 20+…. so THAT is what the problem is… they are still babies…. you are normal, the kids are normal, and it is okay to want to lock yourself in the bathroom for a few minutes to calm down….. tell your husband to put a secret camera int he room and he can see what realy happens when he isn’t there…..the children are NOT thinking reasonably, because they CAN”T. Just remember that

by: Cathy

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 02:25:19 +0000

I am a yeller. And I would change that if I could. I notice that my children are sometimes yelling back at me. I would prefer to teach my children, by my actions, the sandwich method.
The good news is that we will all get another chance to use this method soon.

by: Deb

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:28:17 +0000

Regarding communication skills and age… I don’t think age is the issue, education and role modeling is the issue - in addition to the nature of the child. Some kids are well spoken and some are not.

My daughter is 6 and she already knows that once she has been authorized to do something from mom/dad - she is good to go. If anyone gives her any guff, she puts her hands on her hips and tells them what is what.

She might say - That is so mean, why would you say that to me?
Or she might say - Well, my mom said I could do this!
She is very straight forward.

The best part is she always relates the story to me if I’m not around to hear it, although I usually am. Sometimes I hear the stories from her teachers or grandparents, etc. She is so tiny that I think people are surprised as well as impressed with the way she handles herself.

by: Peggy

Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:22:21 +0000

I am 80 years old, had 5 children in 8 years, have 6 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren. My Grandmother died when my Mother was 3 so Mother didn’t have an example to follow when her children had conflicts. She often involved her children in deciding how to resolve conflicts. Questions like, “How do you think your sister felt when you said —–?” and ” Is there another way you could have handled this situation?” and such helped each of us become more sensitive to how our actions and words affected others. My siblings and I tried to follow our Mother’s example of including our children in deciding how to better handle disagreements. It seems to have resulted in adults who can disagree but not be disagreeable. That’s an asset for anyone of any age.

by: Esther

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 20:07:04 +0000

Don’t think anyone mentioned the fact that this was all done at the last minute with very little planning, and discussion of options. Sounds like mom wants to be liked and keep daughter happy, even though she knows this is not good use of time or resources and adds more pressure. Been there, done that, and learned from it. The reasons behind son’s comments may have more to do with his sensitivity to the whole planning thing and not wanting to have it look like it just got thrown together. Boys can care about impressions too. The actual comments and behaviors are only the surface. Maybe mom could have discussed other options for place-cards without having to purchase anything, or better yet explained that it wouldn’t be possible this time as it was too last minute, maybe next time when we plan ahead for it. Daughter’s disappointment can be a learning experience about planning. And knowing what the plan is can help son and Dad be more accepting as well. My husband and one of my 3 kids are much more sensitive to planning ahead, and knowing what to expect. I am more of a free spirit, I have learned to be sensitive and plan better, and they have learned to be a bit more flexible. I agree, don’t beat yourself up, all is not lost. Apologize to your kids and husband. We are all learning and growing hopefully. Personally, I recommend “Parenting is Heart Work” book. Focuses on the heart and thinking process instead of just altering outward behavior.

by: Kathie

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 18:55:22 +0000

Anyone have any feedback on ways to handle a similar situation between siblings when it turns physical? My 11 year old daughter is not a great verbal communicator and my 7 year old son is a great communicator, but is only 7. She did not like the fact that he had something she wanted yesterday, and kicked him hard in the crotch. He was screaming in pain and she just said “well, he was trying to get the kickboard (in the pool) from me.” My first reaction was yelling at her about what she did. After I calmed down and calmed my son down, I went back and spoke to her about using her hands and feet and suggested that she should come talk to me rather than resorting to the physical. I know that this went in one ear and out the other. This scenario is very typical around my house….Kathie

by: Robin

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:34:21 +0000

Wow! Lots of different ideas for handling the same situation–that’s the beauty of this listserv. I know we “get stuck in some ruts” and my “buttons get pushed”. Thanks everyone for giving me some new ways to try to handle the ruts with the button pushers. . . Obviously, there’s no one size fits all solution.
Here’s one more to try some time in the future in a similar situation-flip on a tape recorder, webcam, etc. in an obvious manner. Often the chaos abruptly stops and it makes interesting viewing and discussion at a family meeting . . . .Robin

by: Kristen

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:25:50 +0000

I liked your comments Christine, I too hate the “should” I so often hear. It always seems to me to imply that there is one right way when there could possibly be many ways that would work effectively and since no two people are the same that makes sense to me.

To ready-to-scream, I feel for you. I always find that when there is an upcoming event, no matter how much you’re looking forward to it, it just adds extra stress to normal day occurrences. Lots of good ideas and responses to try. I hope you have a group of friends or family that support and encourage you no matter what you do.

I’m currently reading “Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves” by Naomi Aldort which is based on a book called “Loving What Is” by Katy Byron (not sure of spelling). The books deal with how a lot of our conflicts arise from our own unmet/unspoken expectations and that if we can let go or realize those, we lessen some of the conflict before it occurs. It is an interesting read. I’m going to look up Love and Logic now too.

Let’s keep trying, keep learning and keep supporting each other.

by: Lisa

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:47:30 +0000

In Mary’s response she mentions the 5 Steps to Resolve Conflict that she has taped up to her children’s dresser. I have 5 children of my own ages 2-12 and I would love to take a look at that. If you, Mary, can please post this for others.
Thank you
Lisa

by: Michelle

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:40:05 +0000

And THANK YOU, Molly, it is truly moms like you that make the world go round. You have some great sound advice. My sister-in-law is a mother of 4 and she is one that I always turn to in time of need and frustration.

by: Michelle

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:32:36 +0000

Well, I must say that those of you who chose to bash Ellen’s advice seem to have gone through a situation like this at some time in your parenting life. If you felt as though you were always handling things the right way in your household, then why are your reading Ellen’s website?

Anyway, it is true, no family is perfect. There was a lot of good advice here today. Do what works for you. Nobody finds peace without a little trial and error. I do try counting to 10 before getting out of control, but sometimes I fly off the handle too. The sad part is that screaming often gets the point across and works in the moment but makes everybody feel bad in the long run.

You have made a great first step. Don’t give up!!!! Your happiness and your family’s happiness is the most important thing in life! If reading is your thing, try some of the books mentioned here. There is no quick fix to any difficult situation. If there was it WOULD be a perfect world.

Good luck & God Bless,
Michelle

by: Christine

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:22:31 +0000

Something I learned in management is to ask the complainer, not the question, “Why?” but instead, “How would you do it differently?”

I think if the boy had been asked this, he might have backed down. It also would not be a taking of sides. I’ve done this in management with teenagers during Summer jobs and they are AMAZED that someone WANTS their opinion. It brings up a deeper discussion between the people not getting along, and allows “facilitation” with less emotional charge.

I am amazed by all the response this conversation has had.

Another thing… I HATE the word, “Should.” It is a word that brings up guilt and shame for people. I never presume to suggest what someone “Should” do or “Should” have done. Certainly there are things that might have been done, and might be done in the future. I think there are gentler ways to get that across.

Don’t “should” all over yourselves and please don’t “should” all over me.

by: Molly

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:21:50 +0000

I am stunned…
Amazing that there are so many “experts” out there.
I particularly loved the one who blames “ready to scream” for being perimenopausal…telling her that she wants “to be noticed, comforted” and that she feels “misunderstood”. Who, on Earth, are you to tell her how she is feeling????? I am appaulled…
I enjoy Raising Small Souls very much but today’s email and the responses were SO judgemental! Even Ellen came off as being incredibly condescending!
I am the mother of 4 amazing souls…3 of whom are teenagers. I am NOT a perfect mother but I am a loving mother who tries her best and “ready to scream” sounds like how I feel sometimes. My kids know we are all human. My kids know how to push one another’s buttons and do it as often as possible. My kids don’t expect perfection,nor are they perfect.
Seems a few of you think you have perfect parenting down to a science…well bully for you…
I think “ready to scream” was attacked today and if I were she, I’d take a long hard moment to think about reaching out to this group again.
“Ready to scream” you are not alone, what happened is done and you handled it in the way that you did…don’t beat yourself up (God knows there are a few here that have done that for you!), you are a loving mom trying to “do it right” and wouldn’t have reached out if you didn’t care. I’m sorry if you got hurt in the response process.
My only advice is to always come back around…even after you have lost it, and once the smoke clears and go to each child and discuss the event…chances are, you’ll get through and the kids appreciate that mom has moments of frustration too and that it’s ok. I usually have the kids have their own kid time to “discuss” it or say sorry or whatever is needed.
Thanks to Katie…her response was “near” perfect…

by: Roberta

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:50:58 +0000

“If you can’t say something nice don’t say anything at all.” That is and old verse all of use know from very early on in our lives and is usually a good reminder of respect for others.
I don’t see that the mom gave a ‘hurtful retort’ or insulted the criticiser. Please, dear Mom, don’t believe that. You were awesome up to that point. I believe your search for help was for the appropriate time, where you lost control of yourself.
There is sound advice in the response and I myself will be practicing the ’sandwich method’.
I’ll also be looking up those Love and Logic books!
Good luck, and God Bless!

by: Deborah

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:31:37 +0000

Come on people !! this is the real world. Give the mom a break none of us know what kind of day she had before this happened .All of us loose it and do not handle things the proper way all the time . You do the best you can and when things happen like this you sit down later and talk about what just happen and how to keep it from happening again .
I feel I raised my boys the best I could and did all the right things and still they do not always please me . ( I am raising 2 of my grandchildren now )
I praise the mom for asking for advice as I have many times since we took the babies .
All you can do is the best you can and Love them handle things as they come up . There is NO PERFECT household out there .

Hang in there !

by: Kim

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:11:35 +0000

As the mother of a soon-to-be twelve year old boy, I appreciate the opportunity to role play this situation so I can learn and perhaps make a choice that is more advantageous for me and my family when something like this occurs in my home (and I know it will).

From hindsight, I think it is important to sit down, relax and reflect on what happened. Any time I want to scream, I am obviously out of control and that is not a good thing, unless I am riding a roller coaster… When I have a “scream” moment, I ask myself, “what worked, what didn’t and what next?” those three questions open me up to my own knowledge and experience and allow me to remove the judgement from myself and hopefully all others involved (in this case, the entire family).

I also applaud you, Mother, for reaching out for support. Often times, if I have behaved badly or a situation has gone “less than perfect”, I hide and try to figure it out on my own. Asking for suggestions and help from an expert or even a fellow mother, is very wise. Our children do not come with instruction manuals but advise and support from others is nice.

Finally, I believe it is ok to scream sometimes. Screaming releases a lot of tension and imagine if in the midst of your daughter throwing things around the living room, and your son, looking smug about the chaos he created and your husband standing at the door confused and exhausted, you threw your head back and let out a loud, whoooping “SCREEAAAMMM”. After a very long, wide eyed moment, everyone might have been able to laugh and then the tension would have been lifted enough for all to be responsible for their role in this family drama.

You are a Champion!!

Best wishes

A fellow “Coaster” Rider.

by: Cathy Lamoureux

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:08:39 +0000

Wow,
I was a bit dissappointed with the harsh responses to Ellen’s reply until I read Mikes!! Way to go Mike!! (I must say I was a bit pleasantly surprised that the response came from a dad:) I agree with Ellen that if you stay out of your siblings conflicts from the onset their communications skills, however immature, will begin develop and they will learn to handle one anothers feelings better . My boys are 5 and 6 and when conflict arises I do not get involved in the reason for the conflict as I am usually not there when it starts,(and even if I was in the same room I cannot gurantee that what was happening that instance was not a result of what happened an hour ago ect…) but I make them both EQUALLY accountable and the punishment is we must go to the table and discuss how we could have better handled it. As the boys get older I will be requesting little essays. You might be saying, ya right in the perfect world, but if this is all they know from an early age it works:)

by: Sharon

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:03:37 +0000

WOW, alot here.

My two cents isn’t unlike many of the others, but I feel like the most important thing for us to do when we are angry at our kids our spouse is to say “I’m angry” and why.
A sripture that has always helped me says “in your anger do not sin” It DOES NOT say that we won’t get angry, it just tells us that there is a proper way to handle and express that anger.

Not easy, but definitely attainable. I think for a sibling fight, let them attempt to work it out first. Make the daughter clean up the mess AND have consequences for such ridiculous behavior, have the son say he is sorry and help create the cards, and the mom should opoligize to everyone for not setting a great example.

It’s hard to be humble, but where will our kids learn it if not from us?

by: Julie

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:51:34 +0000

I’ll just say…I’m not perfect, which is why I look to websites like this, parenting professionals, and peers like all of you, for suggestions and support. In Ellen’s reply, I, too, was waiting for the sympathetic “been there, done that” somewhere in the text, and was a little disappointed not to find it. But again, we all make mistakes once in a while. And I have a feeling that just because there wasn’t the empathy I expected in “print” doesn’t mean she wasn’t feeling it. The suggestions were definitely helpful, but I think this all just goes to show that we ALL (mom, kids, experts, and peers) have to temper our responses with compassion and understanding, not just advice. This is lesson can be applied to the mom’s story, and all of our responses as well.

by: Debi

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:47:34 +0000

My first response to your advice was that you have not had a great deal of experience with teens. Mom…..you did everything right and to infer that you did not raise them right was wrong.
This is a fairly typical situation. Something that by its self seems petty, but after a long string of other disagreements, it simply puts you over the edge. The son and daughter need to work it out, clean up the mess and move on. I also think mom needs to vocalize her feelings to each of them. I an upper grades teacher and deal with emotional outbursts all the time. You need to deal with it, repair the damage and move on.
Hang in there scream………you are OK!

by: Carole Anne

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:12:12 +0000

Although my children are all “grown up”, I still love reading these emails as some day I will have grandchildren ! I love learning something new each day.
C.A.

by: silvana

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:31:31 +0000

What is so wrong with showing anger and fustration? Mom, you are fustrated and angry with the kids and who won’t be. Show it! its not your job to shelter your kids from consequences and other people’s feeling. Stand up for yourself, you count too. The most important lesson here is that your kids realize that its not all about them (they are 13 and 16, time to grow up)….maybe your husband can learn this lesson too. I think when you start demanding some respect and consideration from your family, you’ll feel better and everyone around you will be more considerate to you.

by: Lisa

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:20:07 +0000

Thank you, Ellen, I did not know about the”Sandwich” method. With a 9 and 6 year old I am sure I will be trying that soon.

by: Nichole

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:01:32 +0000

I think the big point that seems to have been avoided for the most part is when Ellen said, “Your children are mature enough to handle their own communications without your intervention.” Many of us as Moms will do anything for our kids but doing nothing seems almost impossible. Giving them space to work things out themselves is so important, and an opportinty for growth. I know it is something that I need to work on.

Nichole

by: Tina

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:45:06 +0000

Hey everyone:

I applaud the mother in this instance for having the courage to share her situation with us. I also think some of us were more than too hard on her. Mommy, if you are still reading - that situation has happened to everyone and if it has not yet happened to some of us — just wait, because it is coming. Anyone who tells you there are no fights or instances of this type of thing in their home is lying and should be booted immediately from this web page.

I like the idea of the woman who said the brother should have picked up the mess; this makes him responsible for dealing with the pain he inflicted on his sister and his mother.

In my opinion, the brother and the father should have to make the arrangements (alongside the sister and the mother) and place cards for not being supportive or involved enough to understand what was going on in the family or with the plans for the family reunion.

I would try to focus on healing the family and doing activities that would bring the family unit together.

At 13 and 16 your kids are almost grown and getting ready to go out the door for college.Try to enjoy them as much as possible without losing yourself or your husband to this type of emotional warfare.

Tina

by: Bethany

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:35:15 +0000

Well - Ready to scream -

All I have to say is, sounds like a normal household to me. I sure am glad I am not the only one with children who behave like that.
Thanks for all the advice from all of you.
I think I have a new summer read “Love and Logic”
sounds good.

I do make my kids pick up a mess after they do something like that. I do find modeling apologizing for my actions when I get upset, or say something inappropriate (which I do), to really help.

It so often seems like if I am present, truly present with my children, and slow to react, but thoughtful to respond, that all is much better.

Now, on the husbands actions - that is another book entirely.

Guess I can only parent and choose to parent the two children I conceived. Parents need tools and resources to parent well. It is the most difficult profession we will ever choose to undertake.
Thanks for all the thoughts.

by: lovinlife

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:29:05 +0000

Ellen said “Assuming you did not model a helpful model of rebuke,…..” In other words (and this is my interpretation) “Let’s pretend this is how it is, and this is how we would deal with it”

I agree with the fact that the two teenagers should have been allowed to figure it out betwean themselves. Mom, could be the monitor if she felt the need to be involved with short comments like, “hey there, watch your mouth”, “That wasn’t very nice”, “calmly please”, etc.

If their emotions start to escalate after that, then time out until you can talk civil to each other.
When they were little, I used to make my boys sit on the porch or entry way together until they could calm down and talk to each other. 99% of the time they would come in with the situtaion solved and laughing, or on a mission to fix something.

COS

by: kathy shields

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:07:51 +0000

Ready-to-Scream,
Hmmm this sounds all too familiar. Have you ever considered that you just might be perimenopausal? This situation you described is so plain vanilla that what might be missing is really a little more background on your own behavior. Sounds to me like there may be other issues linked to your distress. You want to be noticed, comforted and you feel misunderstood. Hormones, spousal relationships and sense of purpose at your age may all have played a role. Don’t be too hard on yourself. Step back and don’t just examine the symptoms. For this you may need an impartial third party. I did, and I got my sense of humor back to deal with the trivialities of teen sibling rivalries of this description.

by: Joe

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 10:48:40 +0000

Well, this is a mess. What should of been done is over. Whats left is what can be done. Remember, next time this is the scene, don’t commit yourself to anything, say since this is a family issue we will disscuss this together. That would show that everyones Ideas are acceptable & respected. Its always better to listen & proccess before jumping to conclusions that others might be hurt. Try it, it works for many other & it should work for you.

by: Jacque

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:48:50 +0000

I believe one thing was overlooked. The mother admitted at the beginning that SHE did not think place cards were a good idea. Yet, when her son vocalized these same thoughts, pandemonium was loosed. It could have been a good opportunity to take her son aside, affirm his feelings, yet share with him why she, herself, responded to her daughter with encouragement, instead of negativity and why people and their feelings are more important than things.
And, thank you for sharing, “ready-to-scream”, and giving us all the opportunity to learn from one another. One of the main difficulties in parenting is that your response in a crisis has to be instantaneous and we can all see, by the varied answers, that even with plenty of time to reflect, no answer was perfect. Lord, help us to keep trying to improve and help us to reject condemnation, in the process. It is all difficult enough without having to attempt to carry on under the weight of guilt.